Crypto NFC microchip: JavaCard or dedicated firmware?

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1














I would like to implement some ECDSA functionalities into an NFC microchip (generating keypairs, signing, etc.), with NDEF communication.



I am wondering if JavaCards suits that need (size, power, protocol, performances, ECDSA acceleration, etc.), or if I'd rather use more dedicated hardware (e.g. banking secure element) with lower level software layer such as a dedicated firmware (the one I'm targeting is http://www.tiempo-secure.com/product/dual-interface-secure-chips/).



Thank you very much!



Mario.










share|improve this question






















  • If I read the SNEP standard correctly then NDEF is generally not used by smart cards; it is used between two NFC capable devices. Although many Java Cards can be read by NFC capable readers they generally just talk in "PICC" mode, where the act as a server that sends responds to commands using ISO 7816-4 defined APDU's. But besides the question if Java Card is capable to do ECDSA and key pair generation (which the API clearly is) your question if it suits your need requires an opinionated answer and is therefore off-topic IMHO.
    – Maarten Bodewes
    Dec 27 '18 at 22:15






  • 1




    Hello Maarten, thank you for your reply. I believe that NDEF is not only used for device-to-device as iOS only enables NDEF for NFC, and prevents sending data through it, so it cannot work for device-to-device. I believe they use it mainly for NDEF Smart Posters, which is a tag-to-device use case, therefore I believe that smart-cards can do NDEF. But my question was more specifically about JavaCards v.s. dedicated firmware. Thanks.
    – Mario
    Dec 29 '18 at 15:16












  • I think an NDEF tag is something different from a smart card CPU as used by e.g. banks. AFAIK Java Card doesn't do NDEF by itself, but a quick search shows a library for Java Card. However, that leaves us just with a comparison of two technologies that are capable of providing the same functionality; hence I voted this off topic.
    – Maarten Bodewes
    Dec 29 '18 at 15:44










  • Hello Maarten, yes Javacard can be implemented as tags, e.g. ST delivers then in wafers, which can then be flip-chiped into tags st.com/resource/en/data_brief/stpay-tigeriron.pdf
    – Mario
    2 days ago










  • What makes that product better suited as a tag compared to the contactless solutions from NXP or Infineon, to name just two major manufacturers out there? Am I missing something? Flip chip contactless solutions are hardly new, right?
    – Maarten Bodewes
    2 days ago


















1














I would like to implement some ECDSA functionalities into an NFC microchip (generating keypairs, signing, etc.), with NDEF communication.



I am wondering if JavaCards suits that need (size, power, protocol, performances, ECDSA acceleration, etc.), or if I'd rather use more dedicated hardware (e.g. banking secure element) with lower level software layer such as a dedicated firmware (the one I'm targeting is http://www.tiempo-secure.com/product/dual-interface-secure-chips/).



Thank you very much!



Mario.










share|improve this question






















  • If I read the SNEP standard correctly then NDEF is generally not used by smart cards; it is used between two NFC capable devices. Although many Java Cards can be read by NFC capable readers they generally just talk in "PICC" mode, where the act as a server that sends responds to commands using ISO 7816-4 defined APDU's. But besides the question if Java Card is capable to do ECDSA and key pair generation (which the API clearly is) your question if it suits your need requires an opinionated answer and is therefore off-topic IMHO.
    – Maarten Bodewes
    Dec 27 '18 at 22:15






  • 1




    Hello Maarten, thank you for your reply. I believe that NDEF is not only used for device-to-device as iOS only enables NDEF for NFC, and prevents sending data through it, so it cannot work for device-to-device. I believe they use it mainly for NDEF Smart Posters, which is a tag-to-device use case, therefore I believe that smart-cards can do NDEF. But my question was more specifically about JavaCards v.s. dedicated firmware. Thanks.
    – Mario
    Dec 29 '18 at 15:16












  • I think an NDEF tag is something different from a smart card CPU as used by e.g. banks. AFAIK Java Card doesn't do NDEF by itself, but a quick search shows a library for Java Card. However, that leaves us just with a comparison of two technologies that are capable of providing the same functionality; hence I voted this off topic.
    – Maarten Bodewes
    Dec 29 '18 at 15:44










  • Hello Maarten, yes Javacard can be implemented as tags, e.g. ST delivers then in wafers, which can then be flip-chiped into tags st.com/resource/en/data_brief/stpay-tigeriron.pdf
    – Mario
    2 days ago










  • What makes that product better suited as a tag compared to the contactless solutions from NXP or Infineon, to name just two major manufacturers out there? Am I missing something? Flip chip contactless solutions are hardly new, right?
    – Maarten Bodewes
    2 days ago
















1












1








1


1





I would like to implement some ECDSA functionalities into an NFC microchip (generating keypairs, signing, etc.), with NDEF communication.



I am wondering if JavaCards suits that need (size, power, protocol, performances, ECDSA acceleration, etc.), or if I'd rather use more dedicated hardware (e.g. banking secure element) with lower level software layer such as a dedicated firmware (the one I'm targeting is http://www.tiempo-secure.com/product/dual-interface-secure-chips/).



Thank you very much!



Mario.










share|improve this question













I would like to implement some ECDSA functionalities into an NFC microchip (generating keypairs, signing, etc.), with NDEF communication.



I am wondering if JavaCards suits that need (size, power, protocol, performances, ECDSA acceleration, etc.), or if I'd rather use more dedicated hardware (e.g. banking secure element) with lower level software layer such as a dedicated firmware (the one I'm targeting is http://www.tiempo-secure.com/product/dual-interface-secure-chips/).



Thank you very much!



Mario.







nfc javacard ndef ecdsa






share|improve this question













share|improve this question











share|improve this question




share|improve this question










asked Dec 27 '18 at 16:36









Mario

62




62












  • If I read the SNEP standard correctly then NDEF is generally not used by smart cards; it is used between two NFC capable devices. Although many Java Cards can be read by NFC capable readers they generally just talk in "PICC" mode, where the act as a server that sends responds to commands using ISO 7816-4 defined APDU's. But besides the question if Java Card is capable to do ECDSA and key pair generation (which the API clearly is) your question if it suits your need requires an opinionated answer and is therefore off-topic IMHO.
    – Maarten Bodewes
    Dec 27 '18 at 22:15






  • 1




    Hello Maarten, thank you for your reply. I believe that NDEF is not only used for device-to-device as iOS only enables NDEF for NFC, and prevents sending data through it, so it cannot work for device-to-device. I believe they use it mainly for NDEF Smart Posters, which is a tag-to-device use case, therefore I believe that smart-cards can do NDEF. But my question was more specifically about JavaCards v.s. dedicated firmware. Thanks.
    – Mario
    Dec 29 '18 at 15:16












  • I think an NDEF tag is something different from a smart card CPU as used by e.g. banks. AFAIK Java Card doesn't do NDEF by itself, but a quick search shows a library for Java Card. However, that leaves us just with a comparison of two technologies that are capable of providing the same functionality; hence I voted this off topic.
    – Maarten Bodewes
    Dec 29 '18 at 15:44










  • Hello Maarten, yes Javacard can be implemented as tags, e.g. ST delivers then in wafers, which can then be flip-chiped into tags st.com/resource/en/data_brief/stpay-tigeriron.pdf
    – Mario
    2 days ago










  • What makes that product better suited as a tag compared to the contactless solutions from NXP or Infineon, to name just two major manufacturers out there? Am I missing something? Flip chip contactless solutions are hardly new, right?
    – Maarten Bodewes
    2 days ago




















  • If I read the SNEP standard correctly then NDEF is generally not used by smart cards; it is used between two NFC capable devices. Although many Java Cards can be read by NFC capable readers they generally just talk in "PICC" mode, where the act as a server that sends responds to commands using ISO 7816-4 defined APDU's. But besides the question if Java Card is capable to do ECDSA and key pair generation (which the API clearly is) your question if it suits your need requires an opinionated answer and is therefore off-topic IMHO.
    – Maarten Bodewes
    Dec 27 '18 at 22:15






  • 1




    Hello Maarten, thank you for your reply. I believe that NDEF is not only used for device-to-device as iOS only enables NDEF for NFC, and prevents sending data through it, so it cannot work for device-to-device. I believe they use it mainly for NDEF Smart Posters, which is a tag-to-device use case, therefore I believe that smart-cards can do NDEF. But my question was more specifically about JavaCards v.s. dedicated firmware. Thanks.
    – Mario
    Dec 29 '18 at 15:16












  • I think an NDEF tag is something different from a smart card CPU as used by e.g. banks. AFAIK Java Card doesn't do NDEF by itself, but a quick search shows a library for Java Card. However, that leaves us just with a comparison of two technologies that are capable of providing the same functionality; hence I voted this off topic.
    – Maarten Bodewes
    Dec 29 '18 at 15:44










  • Hello Maarten, yes Javacard can be implemented as tags, e.g. ST delivers then in wafers, which can then be flip-chiped into tags st.com/resource/en/data_brief/stpay-tigeriron.pdf
    – Mario
    2 days ago










  • What makes that product better suited as a tag compared to the contactless solutions from NXP or Infineon, to name just two major manufacturers out there? Am I missing something? Flip chip contactless solutions are hardly new, right?
    – Maarten Bodewes
    2 days ago


















If I read the SNEP standard correctly then NDEF is generally not used by smart cards; it is used between two NFC capable devices. Although many Java Cards can be read by NFC capable readers they generally just talk in "PICC" mode, where the act as a server that sends responds to commands using ISO 7816-4 defined APDU's. But besides the question if Java Card is capable to do ECDSA and key pair generation (which the API clearly is) your question if it suits your need requires an opinionated answer and is therefore off-topic IMHO.
– Maarten Bodewes
Dec 27 '18 at 22:15




If I read the SNEP standard correctly then NDEF is generally not used by smart cards; it is used between two NFC capable devices. Although many Java Cards can be read by NFC capable readers they generally just talk in "PICC" mode, where the act as a server that sends responds to commands using ISO 7816-4 defined APDU's. But besides the question if Java Card is capable to do ECDSA and key pair generation (which the API clearly is) your question if it suits your need requires an opinionated answer and is therefore off-topic IMHO.
– Maarten Bodewes
Dec 27 '18 at 22:15




1




1




Hello Maarten, thank you for your reply. I believe that NDEF is not only used for device-to-device as iOS only enables NDEF for NFC, and prevents sending data through it, so it cannot work for device-to-device. I believe they use it mainly for NDEF Smart Posters, which is a tag-to-device use case, therefore I believe that smart-cards can do NDEF. But my question was more specifically about JavaCards v.s. dedicated firmware. Thanks.
– Mario
Dec 29 '18 at 15:16






Hello Maarten, thank you for your reply. I believe that NDEF is not only used for device-to-device as iOS only enables NDEF for NFC, and prevents sending data through it, so it cannot work for device-to-device. I believe they use it mainly for NDEF Smart Posters, which is a tag-to-device use case, therefore I believe that smart-cards can do NDEF. But my question was more specifically about JavaCards v.s. dedicated firmware. Thanks.
– Mario
Dec 29 '18 at 15:16














I think an NDEF tag is something different from a smart card CPU as used by e.g. banks. AFAIK Java Card doesn't do NDEF by itself, but a quick search shows a library for Java Card. However, that leaves us just with a comparison of two technologies that are capable of providing the same functionality; hence I voted this off topic.
– Maarten Bodewes
Dec 29 '18 at 15:44




I think an NDEF tag is something different from a smart card CPU as used by e.g. banks. AFAIK Java Card doesn't do NDEF by itself, but a quick search shows a library for Java Card. However, that leaves us just with a comparison of two technologies that are capable of providing the same functionality; hence I voted this off topic.
– Maarten Bodewes
Dec 29 '18 at 15:44












Hello Maarten, yes Javacard can be implemented as tags, e.g. ST delivers then in wafers, which can then be flip-chiped into tags st.com/resource/en/data_brief/stpay-tigeriron.pdf
– Mario
2 days ago




Hello Maarten, yes Javacard can be implemented as tags, e.g. ST delivers then in wafers, which can then be flip-chiped into tags st.com/resource/en/data_brief/stpay-tigeriron.pdf
– Mario
2 days ago












What makes that product better suited as a tag compared to the contactless solutions from NXP or Infineon, to name just two major manufacturers out there? Am I missing something? Flip chip contactless solutions are hardly new, right?
– Maarten Bodewes
2 days ago






What makes that product better suited as a tag compared to the contactless solutions from NXP or Infineon, to name just two major manufacturers out there? Am I missing something? Flip chip contactless solutions are hardly new, right?
– Maarten Bodewes
2 days ago



















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